I have...   A suggestion.   


One thing about the whole Cyberpunk aspect of the game that I think gets lost in the rules and coded objects,  is that the rulebooks tend to focus on the cutting-edge tech and utterly neglect the fact that many people will be using old and/or cobbled together things. 

The thing I noticed about the new rules is, there are even fewer of those *things* people often define themselves by,  or at least use for style points.   Cars and guns and things. 

Understandably,  this place has had to limit DB space on things like coded cars and weapons...    When memory was more expensive and the playerbase on MUSHes like this could get huge.       My suggestion is...   Instead of having to buy the cutting edge to have anything...    Code some 'generic old things:'      Light revolver.   Heavy revolver.   Light Pistol . Heavy Pistol.      Old Sedan.   Old Sports Car.    Old Sport-bike.   Old Hog.  Maybe or maybe not let folks desc their own.   


Maybe, really, the stats would be all the same,  but I got bored with everything being the same.   


So that's a suggestion.         
   

I like the idea, a lot. some items that are not brand new out of a shop would be fun and realistic. an idea to implement that codewise would be to give an item an age causeing them to fail or get glitches when the age is too high and are not maintained (a yay for b/r chars).
taking up the talk on the channel why not take some more of the ideas? what about broke stuff that needs to get fixed before it can be used, would also again give cahrs with b/r skills more to do. Or drive it to an end and have a coded trashbin that jumps randomy between allies (once a week for example) and holds a random broken item, surely nothing like a gun but perhaps a pocsec, or a comlink thingy.

Hah - this is interesting. 

I'm not sure whether I like the idea or not as it would be a house rule, but I think a possible implementation could have items like guns/armors/decks/etc have a:  1)  An initial create date, 2) Last repair/maintenance date,  3) Current item wear/tear modifier, and 4) Permanent item damage modifier (some things just can't fixed well enough to seem like new!  This could be set by an admin during a plot or scene.)  As time progresses, you might run a check against the player-owned items DB to check for things such as length of time between last repair date and current date or length of time between initial create date and current date.

(For ease of understanding, I will select arbitrary numbers and object types for the following examples.)

Let's say for instance the maximum difference between the last repair date and the current date for a pistol to operate without problem is 3 months.  Well, if we were to run the check against all the pistols in the DB with repair differencess of greater than 3 months, we could assign a wear/tear modifier to the weapon of 1 point for each 3 month period beyond the 3 month repair grace period.  If the pistol has not been repaired for 12 months, then +3 modifier.  Maybe once it hits a +5 modifier, that's the limit.  If you reach a +6, the item is no longer usable (OOC Terms: It gets deleted from the DB)

On the same note, perhaps some items have a maximum lifespan.  Perhaps after 24 months, no matter what you do that cheap pocsec is going to give up the ghost (i.e. it gets deleted from the DB).  Had you bought brand X for twice as much cash, then you might get extended maximum life, due to higher quality parts.

Just ideas based on others posted already.  Like I said, I'm not sure I'd endorse it, but it's kind of fun to toss around.

..... In a themely distinction I understand the concept completely of using used items, especially robust things like guns, etc. Were people motivated to role-play such a thing, I know we certainly wouldn't be against it. However, one of the key goals in the reinvention of this game is to avoid unnecessarily complex systems, we're driving towards Roleplay and Story and not necessarily towards full automation or complex autonomous systems to add complexity to the code base. We've got several examples of those systems in the exist game, being in the state they are, they're not something we want to rush into that again ;-)

Actually,  I wasn't talking about unnecessary complications about reliability,   that's a disincentive right there to even bother using old stuff.     Contrary to what advertisers tell you,    even if a given product is generally a piece of crap,  the individual examples that are still around must by definition be still working.     

Yeah,  you could write code to approximate the reliability of the 2070 equivalent of the '81 Chevy Citation I saw driving around last week,   (making my jaw drop, mind you,)   but that's not the point.    You could make things less boring by creating 'generic'   objects that maybe don't have cutting-edge stats,  but still work.     Or even have the *same*   stats,   but still work.    This isn't about writing code,  it's about everything not being "Whoa,  the whole economy crashed and now everyone's got a Yamaha Fubuki and a Yamaha Rapier by Suzuki."

I mean.   Just....   Generic stuff.     And, maybe,   given that MUSHes are no longer in any danger of taking up too much memory to desc things...   Why not individualize things a bit when you drop 10 K on a vehicle?    Guns,   who cares.   It's a vintage reproduction of a Smith and Wesson Schofield.     It's still a heavy revolver.    Pose it being cool all you want.     Why go overboard with code.     If a revolver didn't work,   you wouldn't have a fragging hand anymore,   would you?     I'm not proposing any coding nightmares,  just,   'Do we *really*   need everything to be the same?"     


It's a gun.    Why does it have to be an Ares Predator XXV?    Could be an XIV.      Or a spiffed up HK.   

Guns are guns. 


Cars,  well... 


Why do you need a used 2069 VW EuroLux van when it could be a '23 Dodge Tradesman that runs on a pirated Tsarina engine and a lot of TLC?    Call it an  'old van.'     Riggers may not drool,  but for some folks, it goes.     

Maybe you could have a vehicle with the same stats as whatever-the-Suzuki-Rapier-bike-is, only it's an old Ducati with a bunch of aftermarket parts...

Who cares?       Yeah,   maybe there should be cheaper stuff out there with lower stats,  so you can feel cool when you buy the new Westwind,     but at the same time,   you shouldn't have to write all kinds of stupid code about 'Old stuff is broken stuff'   to relieve the *monotony.*  Work it out,  IC,  you *don't* need code for that.

Yaknow?         

Hey, I had a '82 Chevy Citation. It was grey, we called it the Millinium Rhino.

It ruled.

I'm for customatization.

I'm serious about the Citation.   There was one driving around.       

Anyway,  that's not a 'Suggestion to overcomplicate things,'     just...   Why not be creative?

Creativity! Pah. It stifles ORDER!

Good idea for old stuff. Heres my idea on the policy. Shadowrun has been a game thats kept a lot of core items over the years. Ford Americar's and Colt Manhunter's have been around /forever/. So, in the end, whos to say that /my/ Ford Americar is a 2070 Ford Americar. Could be a 2037 one. Now, as people here have mentioned, vehicles like this don't necessacarily have to be /worse/ then the modern versions, just different, oddly customized, etc.

I'd stick with items that have been mentioned in the books as Canon. Get an old Harley, but make it a model that was at least in Rigger 2 or something. Also, keep the whole 'similar vehicles' from Rigger 3, in mind, especially if you want customization. Some enterprising individual could come up with a bunch of Shadowrunesqe counter-parts to the Colt Manhunter, Hammerli, or Colt America L36, that would have the same stats, but be a different weapon, sort of like how with Rigger 3, the Ford Mustang was the same as the Honda 3220ZX, only differently named.

Go customization, but keep things orderly, is my point.

How about random customization? Old Skool Deckers would get a randomly branded deck when they popped out of CG.

Yeah, but then you'd have to give everyone else a free Club to avoid charges of favoritism.

Random customzation doesn't always fit. The point of customization is for a character to RP more effectivly by having more tools and/or a better realm of RP about him or her.

If I've got a character who likes old Fuchi Machines, it wouldn't be right to randomly give me something from Mitsuhama. If Rheiv wants a retrofitted Colt 1911, it wouldn't be right to give him a Browning HP, and so on. A list of approved customizations, with generic descs for mass customizations, might be applicable, or a 'suggestion list'. But Randomization takes away the whole point of customization. Or most of it at least. 

Rather than the customization type thingies we have now, where 'I want to add this this and this to my gun to ake it better', or even add anything to a gun at all, take Harpers idea to the simplist level... Let people +desc items themselves, possibly name then themselves if we little hellions can be trusted not to name a watergun an Uzi   Keep the stats the same, but allow the kind of old model stuff Harpers talking about.  I like it.

Or, if we were to go with a voucher system rather than items to bloat, everyone would have to do that anyway.  Cars in the General space aren't going to be visible anyway, so coded descing isn't that important.

Wow something for B/R guys to do other than make mag-locks? I'm so down with that!!!

All of Pops gear was scratched built. Kinda looked Ghost Dog like. It would be great if you could get that flavor in the NS.

If they can currently sell jeans that come with premade holes and fade spots, why can't we have an old gun that's been banged against the floor until it barely holds together?

Of course, we could all be weird and just mention how the items look in poses instead of having it be on the item.  Dunno about all of you, but I can't remember the last time I looked at someone elses guns.  But, names changes would be cool.  A rose by any other name would still have thorns.

Agreed with Dreamer. Custom desc'ing should be very low in our concerns. If you want to have an old rattletrap pistol, pose it and keep the gun object itself concealed.

(And no more of this custom-gun 'it's totally old and archaic and sooo-2005, but somehow it's better than the bleeding-edge Ares tech!' stuff.)