It's called "Left Behind: The MUX" And it's adminned by Kirk Cameron and presented by Mel Gibson.

Otherwise you can just play 40k.

All humans are sinners, the only way to alleviate that sin is by purging ourselves in the fires of righteous war in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind.

GLORY FOR THE EMPEROR!

Plus, you can become a heretic and be transformed into an Arco-Flagellant. Think of a Bunraku puppet, only with steel whips for arms.

Beware the power of the Adepta Sororitas.

Adepta Sororitas: Catholicism+Sadomasochism=Win

Actually, we have that.  It's not terribly win, imo.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellant

Nuh-uh! Unbreakable+2 Attacks+Toughness 4 on a cheap unit= Win.

Well DUH something called an Arco-Flagellant is based on an ACTUAL Flagellant.

Arco-Flagellants are cyborgs with extendable whips for hands, though. They are win.

Sooo... what do you guys think about bypassing spirit immunity to normal weapons via tasers and stick and shock? I've had people argue that they deal stun with elemental secondary effects and that they simply ARE elemental attacks. Personally, I don't really give a crap about whether they cook spirits; I love my stick and shock regardless. But I do have a feeling that there's plenty of people out there who'd take issue with the idea that under many interpretations the easiest way to cook a force 10 spirit is with a stick and shock loaded machine pistol, since it strikes at half impact and isn't "normal" damage...

Pgs, 288, and 154 explain what you need to know.

My question is if you guys are fine with stick and shock always being effective against any spirit up to and including Force 6 (6DV+1 Net hit vs. 1/2 Impact), as well as scoring possible knockdowns and forcing disorientation. A lot of people over at dumpshock and within my own IRL group finds the idea a bit dodgy at best. Remember also that a spirit is simply disrupted rather than knocked out temporarily regardless of whether they're taking stun or physical.

The scary thing about this is that stick and shock is by far my favorite ammunition even with the spirit busting capabilities houseruled out. A Hammerli uses light pistol concealability, heavy pistol range, comes with a smartlink and an integral gas vent, so it effectively has no recoil. Add in stick and shock and it's running at 6S at 1/2 impact. That's a pretty good sidearm, even if you do have to reload the dang thing fairly often. It's even worse firing a fairly concealable TMP machine pistol on full auto. 15S+ vs. half impact? Have fun tanking that without a pain editor.

Well, I would say that the secondary effects don't do anything to spirits.  It simply wouldn't make any sense if they did.  As for bypassing immunity?  Nope.  They just go against half impact armor.  That does effectively bypass the main benefit of immunity, but the hardening effect is the same. 

The fact is that spirits can get almost invincible with immunity fairly quickly - without stik n shok to counterbalance them (as the rules provide) mundanes have virtually no recourse against them.  I don't want to see spirits become the hand of god - it would be way too unbalancing between players if mundanes couldn't use stick-n-shock to hurt spirits.  Even with stick-n-shok halving their impact armor, high force spirits are still incredibly scary with a very high dodge pool.  If we decided that stik n shok don't work, everyone would be a summoning or posession mage of some sort, which would be really boring.

I think playing it the way it's written is pretty much fair.  Except for the spirits passing out of course, that just doesn't pass the giggle test.

Yeah... See, I'm more or less fine with leaving the rule as it is, since spirits are scary good and I'm not opposed to anything that helps make them a bit more manageable (for mundanes anyway). But I know lots of people seem to absolutely hate the RAW when it comes to this subject. And it's hard for me to make an unbiased judgement on it, since I'm already about the biggest stick 'n' shock fanboy on the planet.

I bummed around Dumpshock for a while, and here's what all the arguments against RAW stick-n-shock came down to:

realism.

That's right, realism.  In a fictional game set some 60 years in the future.  Where magic has re-appeared.  *eyetwitch*  Trying to debate whether electricity is elemental or can bypass immunity to normal weapons is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  Like angels, spirits are not real, and as such they do not follow any known laws, phsyical or otherwise.  If you don't follow the RAW, you're beating a trail through bullshit territory.

The only thing I concede is the whole knocking out secondary effect of electricity.  I just can't visualize it.  As a GM, I can't see saying "You shock the spirit.  Though it appears to be made of living air, the shock causes it to sorta lie down on the floor for a little while for some reason."  If the admins decide we're taking RAW to the hilt on this one, I won't complain.  It's just really hard to imagine it in a way that makes for a good narrative.

Regardless, after beating this horse to death on dumpshock, I got the main protagonist of stick-n-shock nerf to admit that a) he wants spirits to be uber in his game, b) he doesn't feel like making the spirits super high force to make them uber, he wants strength 6 to be invincible for some reason, c) he's playing a heavily modified version of the game where dozens of tiny things like stick-n-shock annoyed him, so he had to change them all in relation to each other, probably ruining the elegant creation that is SR4 in the process.  I'm not suggesting that all nerfers are like that, but it's an example of the kind of person who wants the nerf.  If you ignore RAW and spirits become too powerful, before you know it you need to houserule spirits.  But then they're too easy to kill with magic, so you need to hosuerule magic.  But now magic is weaker than guns, so you need to houserule guns.  But now the game is too non-lethal so you need to houserule armor.  But now you might as well be naked for all the good armor does you, so... etc.  Unless you want to play a whole new game, it's really inadvisable to mess with the RAW.

Most nerfers /are/ like that, I'm saying it.

As for the knock out effect with electricity vs. Spirits? I can envision it. The electricity 'disrupts' the spirits like it would disrupt machinery. They stop functioning, become transparent, or otherwise just quit working until they can keep going again. Spirits are made of energy, right? Feasible to assume that they are energy that works on a system, so the system is disrupted, they kapoof for a while. Makes sense to me.

Just because something says someone or something goes 'unconcious' doesn't mean that you have to take that literally.  As long as for system effects the events are the same, then I say describe it however you want to.  A spirit gets frozen, twitches a little, and can't respond to its summoner's commands.  After that, they become okay again.  If a person gets shocked and you want to let them continue posing, let them make garbled sounds, piss themselves, and otherwise cause havoc to their wn character.  As long as they can't see/hear/talk/etc effectively then I say its as good as golden.  The rules are there to tell you what must happen in relation to the system.  I.E. Dice rolling, and what's available for the character to know. However, the rules can't tell you how to detail out the events.  That's why people always get confused in the social dice pool game.  They yell, "You can't decide how I roleplay my character!"  But, they forget, I can decide how you "Rollplay" your character.  After the dice are thrown, as long as you obey what the system limits you to, you can do whatever the hell you want for cinematics/roleplay purposes.

I love you guys. My own group can hardly even talk about this one without foaming at the mouth a bit.