I find the turn in topic to be very humorus.

We are now talking about the "professional" appearance/demeanor of runners. We are talking about pure personal preference and artisit interpretation of a dystopian future where people have mutated in to 9ft tall, horn sporting trolls. And you're worried if green hair is going to loose you a job where you're being hired to commit such a criminal act that the people involved conceal who they are and hide real motives... wow.

If you wear clear plastic pants and a severed head as a hat, I can see people stepping away from you. But to dress in neo-punk attire in a world teetering on the egde of anarchy (In some places of 2070 Anarchy is life).

Personally, >>(WARING: OPINION AHEAD)<< I will dress to fit the meeting place. If I'm down town, be downtown. Green hair might make you stick out, consider a hat. Colored hair is a characteristic that could place you with the Johnson. Downtown, you're probably on camera, green hair and all. Wear a hat, somberro, wig...whatever. Point is, dress for the meet, dress for the job. If you give people something to identify/stand out in a line up... you'll bring heat.

But if the job deems that look necessary. You better be able to pull it off. Green hair, must be dyed/shaved. Piercings removed. Tattoos. etc. etc.

Use your head. Or I'll wear it as a hat.

Option #1: Post a message to bboard 1, letting them know the WARNING OF REDMOND. If a player stands out with money, we make an example by PCkill?

Modern day Compton is controlled by a policy known as 'containment'.  Modern day police officers operate under the understanding that crime is a direct byproduct of urbanization, and that it will occur on some level or another.  Places that can be effectively patroled inside of local manpower and resources, are.  Locations that cannot, then, are merely 'contained' so that crime does not spill out into neighboring regions.

This means that even in present day, there are locations that are effectively 'unpoliced' so long as that district doesn't begin to spill out into surrounding zones.  When it does, we get the sort of situations that Hollywood enjoys making movies about, and shadowrun fans drool over.

None the less, taking that present-day understanding, and applying it to the gross over-urbanization of a 2070 Dystopia, we not only have areas that have degenerated so severely that they are outside of standard law-enforcement, but finding cops 'on the take' is less the exception, and more often, the rule;  Particularly as their jurisdiction moves closer and closer to these 'Deadzones', or, 'Barrens'.

Not only is that lawless, then, but it is corrupt-and-lawless.  Today, when it's dark, you're alone, and somewhere you shouldn't be, chances are most people that would hold you up for your wallet will at least think twice.  Why?  Because it's possible that the fates will align, they'll get caught, and have to give you you're guchi-wallet back along with your platinum American Express card while they ride in the back of a squad car to think about what they've done.

In the Barrens, this isn't the case.  Infact, not only is it -not- the case, but in addition to a lack of law enforcement, a good number of the population are fiending for another line, another trip, or worst case, just another meal to let them live another day.  That is to say, twenty bucks could be what stands between them, and ending their little cruise through life earlier than they'd like, without even the decency of finding their final resting place six feet under the ground.

Possibly I'm stating the obvious, but I'd like to illustrate that this means the Barrens are -not a nice place-.  Even some of the wrong alleys in Touristville might land you in the middle of something you shouldn't be walking into the middle of.  Fair enough?

So, with that said: I vote Option #1, with slight modification - Post a message that makes it completely clear how dangerous the Barrens are, and rather than 'just flashing cash' around, expand the clause for death to read: 'Just being a jackass, in general'.

If you play your cards right, the Barrens are a great place to ditch the cops, hoarde a cache of AKs, get some great deals on the latest sim-trips, and maybe catch the latest in the rumor-mill.  But it's also a great place to find out that in the end, you just turned out to be a wannabe and now someone else is wearing around those cool sneakers you were sporting.

The Barrens: Enter at your own risk.

-CM

When I consider the style choices of Shadowrunners, I go back to the old standard. Fields of Fire. Otherwise, theres a difference between a professional and a shadowrunner, often enough. Well, thats not my real thoughts of the matter, but I still like that book.

But folks are right. Its attitude, attitude, attitude. Sometimes this boils down to having the etiquette to adapt and change attitudes accordingly. Now, don't expect anyone not to take you at face value. If you come in wearing a day-glo orange mohawk and a ripped leather jacket with razors attached all over it, a J may look twice before hireing you for some sensitive corp job, and somene who's hireing a Shadowrunner for another reason (Rescue my kidnapped son, mess with those guys who keep asking for protection money, keep me safe while this buissness deal transgresses) they might say, "Woah, this isn't they guy." Why? Cause your the quintisential Shadowrunner, a criminal . Sometimes that can benefit you, other times, folks might say things behin your back. Same if you came in with a close-cropped hair style, clean yet non-descript clothes and a neat armor jacket, you might get a different reaction. Probably not a bad one unless they really are looking for street toughs.

Woah. Gah, points there somewhere. I'm tired. /Tangent.

As for entering the Barrens at your own risk, I might be inclined to agree, if we had a choice in the matter.

I'll let my eternal optimism rest for the day, and just say that though the cops don't patrol Redmond, its not complete anarchy, as powerstructures exist, mainly in the form of gangs.

Absolutely.  The powerstructure exists, primarily in the form of gangs - Which is why just flashing cash, in my own completely humble opinion, shouldn't be the only qualifier for finding a fourty-five caliber slug rattling around inside your skull.

Being a jackass, in general, will be just as likely to get you killed as being an easy mark, with a load of cash - Disrespecting the power-structure, doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, or generally just standing out dramatically improve your chances for getting fragged.  We all have our own local dive bars, right?  We can probably spot people who aren't regulars?  Would it be safe to say that some people 'Just don't belong' in some settings?  Yeah?

So, in the Barrens, standing out or insulting the wrong person (Intentionally or not) just carries something of a harsher penalty than our local bars back home might.

Really though, I think it's pretty common sense.  Just don't be a jackass in the wrong place.

-CM

   I think you guys totally missed my point, which was us nerds, not the runners we play on tv. And as for "the job" etc, think about the true criminal element that has existed forever and ever, they blend in anywhere not just for "the streets", "the meet" etc. Take the movie Heat for instance, in my mind that's probably the closest to what shadowrunners are-- the point being don't attract attention period.
   Now if you're playing a flamboyant PC play one, but my original point was that I just though it was humorous how on most Shadowrun Muxes it's only one of those two choices (in the majority), while books, canon, and artwork have numerous plays on those fashions. So be creative, and stop arguing over my observation-And yes Johnsons will judge you on your clothes, it's human nature!

Runners should judge a johnson on their clothes as well. If the Johnson wants a meet in some tecno-rave nearly strip joint then they should blend in some as well. Johnsons should -not- want to be distinguishable as a 'Johnson' they should be somewhat identifiable but not the -only idiot in the bar wearing a suit-, for example. That means you're probably dealing with a low level johnson that doesn't know the rules, likely has bad intel, or is just generally... a noob for lack of a better term

Right. 5 separate posts disagreeing with me, and I can't tell what point you guys are trying to make.

Is it that you can dress however you want, ICly? I totally agree. Go wild.

Is it that you should never be hassled for the way you look, ICly? Absolutely not. As staff, I reserve the right to give your PCs crap at any time for any reason. I will say, however, that I've got much better ways of messing with your PCs than having the street corner goon give you dirty looks.

Is it that nobody (PCs or NPCs) ever gets in trouble ICly for the way they look? Again, no. If you need a reference, there's the Fields of Fire posting by Matador (specifically the comments by Hatchetman), some of the commentary in the Fashion section of the Sprawl Survival Guide (from which the SR4 Fashion heading was brutally ripped), and the Ager document in the SR3 Companion (in an oblique, between the lines sort of way) There are people in the world who are judgemental assholes. They will harass those who do not fit their predefined world view, in behavior, appearance, or by their mere existence. Objections?

I OBJECT your honor! You use the term "judgemental assholes" like it's a bad thing. They are people too. You...insensitive...breakfast food. :sob:

The problem I think people are having with your post Waffle is this:

It was too over-reaching. Too all-encompassing, and to restrictive.

The way you worded it was that 'If you dress a certain way, I will not give you runs because no Johnson will take you'. At least, that's how it came out to me. Your more recent post I agree with more readily. However, I still stand with the others who said that Reputation pwnzrs Appearance.

Agreed.  If you've got the street cred to say you 'always get the job done' then you can show up at the meet in a pink tutu and riding around on a purple emu, and the Johnson will still take you seriously.

That is, if you can convince the Johnson you are who you say you are, although that's distinctive enough that there's not likely to be any doubt if you do that regularly.

In addition to my previous posts, it isn't like the J or Fixer is meeting you at the bar because they are wondering if you WILL take the job.  They are there because you fit the bill, you are a shadowrunner, you are a criminal for hire.  You wouldn't be there if the vague details acquired to get there didn't fit your style.  You wouldn't be there if you really had a good paying job that took care of your pink tutu dry cleaning and your emu food.  You wouldn't be there unless you were a person who could get the job done.  Wearing the wrong clothes in the wrong place and/or situation will assuredly get you hurt/maimed/noticed/killed/etc.  However, we've got to understand that what is 'wrong clothes' today ISN'T necessarily the wrong clothes in 2070.  The corper isn't like the corper in the Cyberpunk 2020 books, they all don't wear suits and they all don't have sunglasses with radio transceivers in their ears.  One of Tear's best NPCs was a J, who was a clubber!  It was perfect, you didn't notice them till they noticed you, and then they'd wander up and start talking to the group of shadowrunners (who typically stand out like sore thumbs).  So fashion not withstanding, you don't show up to a job meet to turn it down or to even question turning it down, you show up to get the further details which seal the contract.  You leave at the meet, that's bad reputation time.  Its not like a J wants you wasting their time.

So I agree with it all.  And I agree that staff can do whatever the hell they want, that's why Players try to negotiate with them beforehand, so that we try and find the answer to:  Are you going to kill me just cause I chose to describe my character in a cool way?  If the answer is yes, than blargh on you!  But if the answer is, "Only if you do or go someplace stupid for the coolness you've described."  Than I'm all for it.  Not only cause you've read my desc and inadvertantly admitted it to be cool, but ALSO, and more importantly, you are being sensible.  So, that's all.  And than of course I was ranting about other posts and such too.

Barrens - Evil Place, for anyone, but there are means to mitigate that.
Touristville - Not so evil place, more like a vil place.  You know, Evil sans the E.  The E is where it gets its power anywho.

Green hair is NOT stand-outish.  Its like describing someone who's got brown hair these days.  As a note.  Sure it helps identify you, you and 3 million other people in the tri-county area.  But green hair, pink tutu and a large emu.  That'll be hard to pinpoint, prolly only 3 emus owned in Seattle anyways.  So, lesson 1: Don't register your Emu with Lonestar.  Harder to track.

So I miscommunicated. Blah.

That, and you're part of a well balance breakfast.

-CM