We don't have enough admins to bust into a bar every day of the week. So if that's your concern, you are safe from that sort of railroading.

And who said they do or will? No one has said they roll dice to decide. None of the GMs have said that player deaths are decided by a dice roll. You apparently based your post on assuming they do.

A little less assuming, please.

Please keep in mind that the problems of the past are just that. Problems of the past. The current GMs are NOT going to kill your PC for paperthin reasons. When we start beta, players will be informed six ways to Sunday about how they are expected to act in certain parts of the grid. Players will be expected to play accordingly.

Until this theme is posted, any posts arguing about what it should be are pointless. Suggestions are welcome. Keep your posts to just that. Suggestions.

-Hades

Suggestions are good, like Hades said.? Opinions are good. Shooting down someone's ideas because they don't fit yours isn't.? But enough of that...

Keep in mind when suggesting that admins shouldn't railroad PCs into scenes that chances are that later on PCs will be asking for scenes to be dropped on them.? No staffer is going to pull an NPC out of the woodwork for no reason in a bar and aim a gun at your characters head just for wearing the wrong clothes.? Although, a staffer could pull an NPC out of the woodwork, wave a gun vaguely in your direction and five others 'cause the guy is so doped up he needs another fix and your PC happens to be looking yummy in that three piece suit.? But Staff tends to ask before things like that and it isn't with the intention of killing a player.

I like and try to pose all those nifty little atmosphere things with my PC.? Whether I react to the guy getting beat down on the corner is entirely dependant on whether I have to walk around them. ? And I think my next character is going to find a rooftop to toss grenades off of just for fun and the big blast.? Or water balloons... Water balloons would be more fun. Or pineapples...

Well, being a SRS virgin, I do not have any predisposition towards SRS, defensive or otherwise.  Assuming that I am acting defensive about my opinions (I think "rigorous" is a better word myself), I'll just have to ask that you take it in stride of just plain bar me from discussion threads.  I have an obsession with argument and any place where I have the expertise to form strong opinions and share them and debate them, I will.  If that's unwelcome or disruptive, then I'm sorry; that's just how I am

If you like, however, I can give my simple, unqualified estimate of what has happened through this shit-storm of talking about danger in the barrens; I do after all pride myself on being a reasonable person, and it would be rather unreasonable to refuse such a polite request for civility ^.^ It seems to have been resolved amongst the players that railroading is unwelcome, but dangerous situations where one has the option to choose one's own actions are very much in demand.  Being dumped into a life-or-death situation totally beyond your control outside of a plot-starter type thing, while realistic (though stastically improbable) is not widely regarded as a good time and is not likely to help the MUX.  People want very much for the Barrens theme to be realized, they sound like they're looking forward to an active staff who work towards that goal, and they will eagerly participate in the everyday struggles between the big guy and the little guy that make Shadowrun what it is.  That, I think, is what the players can agree on more or less.

Wow... 4 pages of that.  Wow.  I've been on this single thread for about a day now.  And it seemed like it was growing faster than I could read.  Okay.  Had some things to say early on.  Mostly they've been covered.

Okay, now if I'm wrong here someone correct me, I actually don't wanna hear opinions.

Redmond is made up of two locations.  The Barrens (which features lots of smaller sprawls all low security places with regards to Lone Star).  And Touristville, okay security rating and likely even better security from local gangs.  Hence why rich people go slumming it there.  Prolly lots of drugs, bars, clubs, that sorta thing to keep the rich folk entertained.  And a decent level of small-time crimes, like tagging/theft of property/mugging/some beating up.  But not as much of the big stuff (unless in an alley far away from some club all by your lonesome you stupid mofo).

Everyone wants the Barrens to be unsafe, and they have various thoughts on how to do that.  And most everyone ignores anything about Touristville giving me the thought that at least there's some uncontended ideas about it.  Like it is not like The Barrens in being dangerous so much, and thus you can play that area like the 'safe zone'.

Staff is good, players are good.  Theme is good.  No one knows how to make all that work together.  Lots of ideas though ranging from rewards, to punishments all the way to staff/player intervention of sceneage.

There's the idea that staff and players don't want the Redmond district not to be respected as a fearful place.  And there's the idea that players do not want to be forced into situations completely outside of their control.  And there is the reminder by staff that players will sometimes be in situations outside of their control, but it will be for the fun of the game not because of 'picking on anyone'.

This is all good.  Thanks folks.

I just hope that as dangerous as redmond will be, that the high security places are equally as dangerous if not more so. Shadowrunners tend to not have SIN's, they tend to operate in passive or hidden mode. Both of these things are illegal in some places. I hope that the wireless world is patrolled by drones, lone star, and I hope they're scary as hell.

I personally -want- to be scared by pissing off LoneStar. I want to be scared by acting stupidly -anywhere-. I'm all for getting plots dropped on my head, especially if I have a low Edge, after all, I've already got piss poor luck so...

Hit me baby.

After reading all the posts, I decided to not give an opinion, just an experience.

On Seattle, my first time I played. I was propositioned by a female orc on a street corner in da Barrens.? I did as my character would do, being a tough Ex-Ganger kind of guy. I walked over and asked what the local prices were.? Well, I got mugged.? I tried to defend myself, but after a short bit of fist-a-cuffs. I went unconscious. -Welcome to the Barrens- . Being 200 nuyen short of my 400 was the price it cost me. So, I learned and my character learned.? I found out later it was a staff member seeing if I played In-Character. I was told that I did a good job of RPing and did as the character would have done. (as per my BG)? My character was never that bright, when it came to being deceived. The important thing is I lived. Was short some cash, but I learned from the experience.?

I am sure if I would have pulled a gun or escaluted the situation, all bets of street ethics would have been off and I would have died. Some people don't think their is a code. But, any slum in 2006 or 2070 has a type of ethics they adhere to.? The problem is if your an outsider and/or do not go by the rules. Then you get what you deserve. And dying isn't the worst option. Striped naked and left tied up in a basement of devil rats.? Just, one of many examples. Work them all out in your head.

But, back on topic.? Having street skills and knowledge should keep you out of most problems. Doing stupid things, well.. their you go. The list is endless.


I would llike to think all the time we spend on forums, MUSHs, playing this game has a purpose and helps make a better, and more realistic world for us to explore and play in.

I'm not much of a writer or speaker. But, those are my thoughts.?

I know this is a little off topic, but I just think it's funny. Just a quick note on all the fashion postings within the Redmond Topic. People seems to think that there are two fashions, each "individual" and enthralling:

A) Long hair, Trench Coat, Boots

B) Yawn inducing Goth Wear.

   Well, that's all fine and good but frankly I  feel the majority of sci-fi fans in general are obsessed with these two styles of dress (I've been to enough SciCons to know haha), which personally I don't get, but has anyone read the canon books? I mean, Shadowrunners (the goods ones) just dress like normal people, or dress to to fit the area, or yes have their own "unique style", though any author will tell you a good description is a few key touches of the character, and a good flaw for description, not two pages worth of reading.
    I know this is a game etc, but  it's just something to think about; (<---not an emoticon); If you plan on playing an "individual" PC or "blending" in, whatever that means. If you're wearing Green hair and leather pants that's all well and good, but you don't look that professional,  really, and a Johnson of any caliber probably won't hire you for anything above streetwork.

    I just think it's reality imprinting itself onto a game and creating cliche two dimensional descriptions (nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is). And that's fine by me!

                                                                   -A guy who plays long haired trench coat wearing orks.

Umm Green hair...leather pants...is rather plain for 2070 if you read the book.

"Piercings and tattooos are practicaly required"
"Hairstyls: You name it, somebody's done it.  Hair in non-natural colors is so common that people don't even look twice at it anymore..."
ofcourse...

"..jeans, athletic shoes, leather and synthleather jackets, sports-themed gear and so forth- are still as popular as ever."
"If you really don't care ( or you just want to blend in and keep your nice clothes from getting messy, gory, or otherwise trashed), there are always "flats"--buy them from a vending machine, wear them a few times, and recycle them for a new pair. Convenient, yes; fashionable--no way!..."

All quotes from the fashion section on page 47 of sr4.

It may be commonplace, but that doesn't make it professional. And while it is possible to come off as a professional with such an appearance, it's certainly more difficult.

Shadowrunners are not your clean-shaven well trained corporate operatives, and that's exactly why they're valuable to the corps.? They're supposed to look like, and act like regular people.? A killer suit sticks out like a sore thumb anywhere outside of a AAA sec zone, but your average runner is just another freak in the circus.

Shadowrun, despite is fliration with The Matrix style action, is a cyberpunk game.? And cyberpunk is not about suits and mirrorshades; those are the badguys in a cyberpunk setting.? Obviously there is freedom to do whatever the hell you want with your character, which is good, but I wouldn't trust a GM who says professional looks are required to impress a Johnson as far as I could throw him.

Also, I like yawn inducing goth wear... I know it's cheesy, and cliche, and it sucks, but... I still like it ;_;  Don't be mean to me D;

Professional looks aren't. Professional demeanor is. Those who casually dye their hair and wear leather pants are less likely, on the whole, to have a professional demeanor. Regardless of the validity of this claim, Johnsons believe it, and make assumptions about your professionalism, and thusly treat you like a gutterpunk. They probably will anyway, but you're just making it worse with the Etro beard and the glowing G-string.

The point ultimately being that just because outlandish styles are considered fashionable doesn't make them a constant or necessary attribute. It just means that Joe and Jane Citizen are jaded as hell, not that everybody, or even the majority of the population, dresses that way. I mean, hell, how many people in the world today are considered fashion plates?

I agree with Tear on this one. If only judging by the artwork in SR publications, it seems to me that for the average shadowrunner, outrageous fashion sense by 2006 standards is the norm.

Ok.  Lets look at things logicaly.

Normal colored hair now adays?  Do you look twice?

No, because its comonplace.  Its the norm.  Its accepted.

Odd colored hair in 2070?  Do you look twice?

No, because its comonplace.  Its the norm.  Its accepted.

If you can look professional nowadays with the accepted hair colors we have, why is it a stretch to believe that you can look professional with the accepted colors of the 2070's IN 2070?  Now adays you have bright green hair you'll get a second look.  The equivilent of that in 2070 is having your hair removed and have colorchanging fiber lines put in its place.  That may not look professional, but when society has accepted dye jobs as commonplace.  Commonplace...as in...just about everyone does it, can do it.

The problem is you're judging with 2006 standards.  You're right, if I walked into a job interview today with bright pink hair, I would have already lost the job.  But this is not 2006...this is 2070.  Attitudes have changed.  We're talking about shadowrunners here.  When the average citizen dyes his hair why would shadowrunners be looked down upon for it?  Answer me that.  And please don't give the line about professional looking, or the fact that shadowrunners are not average people.  Shadowrunners are people too.  Especialy in the sr4 setting where things are a bit more turned down, where things are much more gritty.  If shadowrunners aren't allowed to fit in with the crowd and do things that are commonplace, then we might as all hang up our books and dice because we can't play shadowrun.  We'll be spotted in a instant, we'll be hunted down and killed.  We'll stick out from the crowd because its not professional to fit in with society.

Sorry that 2070 doesn't conform to the ideas of 2006...but it just doesn't...nor is it supposed to.  Afterall, homosexuality is accepted in 2070, theres brothels in just about every large town or medium city on up.  Just read some of the stuff about society.  2070 and our current society are VASTLY different.

I will have to concur with the current postings.  The fashion of the late 1800s was drastically different than todays.  Those of 1940s were desparately different than today.  Today its fine to have bleached blonde hair, today its fine to wear skirts that don't go down to your ankles, today no one cares if you come into your interview with a polo on instead of a suit.  In fact, in many situations entering with a suit on, or a Susie Homemaker dress, you'd be laughed at, or at least looked at weird.

That's about normal society.  Now lets move on to the criminal element.  In the light crime areas, theft and gangers and whatnot, fashion/style/attitude is all that matters.  That which is out front, whether or not we are talking about the Italian Mafia with their dark brown and black pin-striped suits, or the bloods with their red colors and hoodies.  To each what they will want is going to be different.  However, when we talk about the kind of 'high-crime' stuff... that's all gonna be reputation.

You don't get the good paying job from a corporation cause you LOOK the part.  They didn't find you cause your SPRITZY clothes or your SUBDUED suit told them... "Hey, that girl would be perfect for this job requiring them to hijack a bullet train and take this large box of missiles.  Cause they dress the part, they must be the part."  No, they don't care AT ALL what you look like, only if you talk right, only if you show up for the meet where you negotiate with their professional negotiators.  And they care A LOT about your reputation.  What's this person done in the past?  What have they succeeded on?  Who told me to get this person over Johnny John John the Razor Freak?  I've never used them, but word on the street is they are THE BEST!  That's all that matters.  All the big jobs require reputation, of some kind or another.

Fashion in the Shadowrun world doesn't matter at the meet.  It doesn't matter when you do the job.  If you do the job, if you've done well on jobs previously, than that's all that matters.  Putting on a suit and tie gets you no better gains than piercing your skull with 6 inch spikes which flash colors to whatever music playing on your current AR track.  However!  Dressing more like gangers like, might just get you those ever-so-important street jobs when you've got no reputation than dressing in that suit and tie.  Why?  Cause you aren't a freak.  Now, a vinyl suit with a see through mid-section, that's a whole other story.