I would say yes...but I would also say we would have to see how the current systems play out.  Such as the noms for small amounts of cash.  Maybe we won't need this.  We'll see though, its hard to tell what we will and won't need or should and should not consider till we have atleast -some- experiance on the grid to tell us how things will play out.

On a completely unrelated note, I've noticed more and more people asking about sr4 on denver...(new people that is).  I know personaly I can't wait for this place to open up.

The org system is almost custom built for a game without a lot of activity.? A large part of London's pbase is in GMT, then probably equal parts of the rest are in EST, CST, PST, and "other."? This means that plots are pretty hard for such a small MUX, and a lot of people are not likely to see many.? Disraeli also isn't big on dropping scenes on people; he's big on staff involvement, but he seems to prefer letting the players control the ordinary day-to-day action on the streets.? And that works very well with the orgs system... Gangers can have gang battles, military can break them up, triads can fight the police, etc.? The streets are lively and the MUX's small staff doesn't have to whisk about starting fires everywhere, they're free to focus on running the game and doing discreet plots.? It works great for a small MUX with a small staff, but I'm pretty sure Seattle's intention is to grow and become a not-so-small MUX.? I can see that happening, because a lot of MUXers are burning to get into SR4.? So, a system that provides for one's living on a ghost-town sort of game is not something we should be adpoting

Seattle has been, as I understand it, much more focused on admin activity, and it looks like that's the idea for NS.? Admins will make the world shake, and players try their best to ride it out.? It seems to me like there will not be too much trouble for people to make ends meet with just a plot or two a month.? If you're still worried, one solution is to pre-pay your lifestyle.? Give yourself 6 months of low lifestyle for 2.2 BP in chargen, and you'll be sitting pretty long enough to make the next 2k for the 7th month...? And even if you run out at some point, anyone can come up with 500 yen; swallow your pride and become a squatter?

While there are quite a few things about Disraeli's vision of Shadowrun that I will commend the man on, I cannot in good faith condone a MUX that focuses on Orgs over independant shadowrunners.? Perhaps his distaste for the rampant muckery of SR: Denver, and his coming of age inside that site, who's founders fled from Detroit and brought with them the Independant-Shadowrunner-Only (Perhaps that's changed.? I didn't stick around much longer after launch.) mentality of it, gave him cause to pull a bait-and-switch and move to the Org system: For his site, in many ways, was the antithesis of his roots.? But none the less, shadowrunning is, quite literally, the name of the game - Any game that doesn't take this to heart first and foremost will be trying to fit itself inside the theme, rather than the theme inside itself.

So in a way, I agree with you, though perhaps not for the same reasons.? Mux large, or Mux small, and orgs, either way, still form a devisive barrier in gameplay.

As far as lifestyle, prepaid or otherwise, that's certainly an alternative to a vocation system.? Though I'd point out that vocations can, and for the most part almost certainly are, seperate than Orgs.

But yes, admin activity will be great.? I'm sure we're all looking forward to what they have up their sleaves.

-CM

I've got arms up my sleeves, shoulders too.

Lies.

-CM

I like your sig, how much use do you think we'd get out of a bash.org like site? ;-)

I think we'd be the star players.

-CM

Play nice. Or I get the stick.

Run! It's the Nory-monster!

+whine=No fair, they're just trying to boost their post counts while pretending to banter in a friendly manner.  Even though one of them is a staffer.

:sulks in the corner.

Oh yeah, cause they really need to pad...

<---- I won the forums. High Score!

Ooh, leet haxorz.

So if we pad our scores here, does it convert into free months of lifestyle padding? Then it'd actually be worth to hack the forum

First, some responses about London.  Seeing as I talked with Disraeli a LOT about the change in the system.

Mostly the idea came about because there are no Cyberpunk MUXes, only Shadowrun sites.  And, he's never been fond of the high lifestyle shadworunners, but more the down and dirty.  Than, he really likes the SR system of stuff.  So, from all that London was born.  Which, as much as anyone might say, is an ideal shadowrunner haven.  Orgs ARE what shadowrunning is all about.

If you are a member of the triads you work inside of their organization, you have ties to them, they own you, BUT you make crap for nuyen.  You can still shadowrun, you ARE a shadowrunner, working for and against org ties that help you stay alive while you walk the gritty streets.  You have to play the politics of doing a job that might actually hurt your organization, but because they don't pay you enough, and you need the next new edge to stay alive, you've GOT to do it.  It is the ultimate in making moral, ethical, and honorable decisions.

Shadowrunners come out of gangs, but more importantly they survive because of ties with gangs.  Well, with such a small staff all the gangs can't be NPC'd all the time, and the players just RPing out the NPCs all the time is no where near as cool as you knowing another PLAYER who IS a ganger, and has a few gang buddies who help you out from time to time.  Even on jobs.  So now they are incorporated into the Shadowrunning world.  See, London is all about having both sides of the coin, all sides of the coin really.  From corrupt small business men, to triad bodyguards who come along with cops on shadowruns, or military folk.  But while NOT in the shadowrun world they have to play their roles, do their things.  If a triad character is caught by military in the streets with tons of drugs... well, they get busted, harassed, and sent back to their org (or worse).  But!  While on the shadowrun, the same people have to work together and forget about their day jobs.

Okay.  Enough about the wonder which is London.  Its small, its SR3 (heavily modified to being its own unique beast) with a great vocation system that requires players to be active in creating the world.  It doesn't so much work for the theme being set-out thus far for New Seattle.  For one, all we've got is Redmond.  But we know of the pristine, the clean, other locations in Seattle.  We are in the dirt, but there's more than just dirt for us to play in (on plots, etc).  We have a world of Shadowrunners, using a system that's all about us, unlike SR3 which was about everything (and SR3 London Style which is about as close as you get to Cyberpunk 2020).  Orgs here would endanger the game balance that Sr4 has set out, it would subvert the contacts system which they've finally made into something both useful, and sensible.

Vocations, a rich part of the London MUX, can be incorporated in a different way here.  The same as +karma2cash.  That's where hopefully the +nom system will come into play.  You get the +noms for RPing with other people on grid, which in turn earns you small amounts of nuyen, which in turn is ICly represented by whatever vocation you happen to pick.  It pays for your lifestyle, which is all the London vocations ever really did, and beyond that you live and breath by shadowruns.  So we can bypass the use of +karma2cash to make gazillions of nuyen, and we can remove the necessity of having Noor keep posting about how we need to find coders for him so we can play!!! Damn it Noor, I'll learn to code!!!