I think this needs some revisiting since we've been proceeding on the notion that some form of strikes will happen in the new game, so I'm going to recap with some of the parameters people have given:

1. It should take more than one warning before a PC or staffer receives a gmnoted strike. Everyone has a bad day or two, and people deserve some leeway. Warnings should be posted on staff boards to keep track.

2. Strikes should be given primarily for OOC rudeness or flouting of published policy.

3. Cheating (yet to be fully defined, though policy on SRS gives some good guidelines) should be an immediately bannable offense.

4. Strikes should run out after one year of good behavior.

And let me be a little clearer here on what the result of a third strike would be. The player would be banned from the forum as well as the game itself. Warnings and strikes can be the result of behavior on the forum as well as the game.

Now, the thing we got hung on, here as in the Senate, was the application to staff. This is my opinion on that (agree or disagree at will): staffers are under more pressure than players. We take a lot of abuse, much of it undeserved and some of it deserved. The bar needs to be higher to accommodate the stress factor. That said, I still believe that staff should be subject to discipline. Staffers who show blatant favoritism, who are consistantly rude to players and/or other staffers, who find themselves unable to adhere to the policies of the game should lose their position if they receive a first strike according to the guidelines listed for players, though they may receive more warnings than players generally would. As players, they still may be subject to second or third strikes if their behavior merits it.

Ok, I've painted a new target on my back, shoot.

That works for me.  More verbal warnings before going to the written strike and getting kicked off staff.  Of course, if the second warning comes quite close to the first and for the same thing... might loose one of those extra warnings with things like that.  I'm of the opinion that if the warnings are for different things, as in the first warning fixed the behavior now something else is pushing them over the edge, that it gives more leeway.  But that's just me.

Well, I don't want to get too specific in the number of warnings for either staffers or players for the exact reasons Dreamer mentions. Generally, as Xandar points out, depending on the type and severity of the warnings, somebody may recieve several before ever meriting a strike, or very few. Just depends on what it's for and what the individual does to make up for it.

I'm in favor of "@pemit someone=You're obviously too worked up and can't handle this well. Go get some sleep and come back tomorrow.; @boot someone" as the last step of warning someone (player or staff).  Obviously, this would only apply to rudeness and similar behavior - it doesn't work for cheating and harassment.  If they come back that night, or continue their behavior the next day, then give them the strike.

I don't really like the idea of @booting someone.  Unless the situation seriously calls for it.  There are ways to boot them off channels and block pages if harassment is one of the issues.  But to knock someone off the game and keep them off while they are angry at something would just promote that anger and not help the situation from my point of view.  But, yes, there may be situation that call for it.

And I agree, Noor.  One rude comment or swear word wouldn't be the same having every comment contain an insult and shouldn't be given the same weight in a warning.  It's a flexible system, but some thing we should have no flex on.  But those things we shouldn't flex on, I think we've already agreed something close to complete banning.  So, eh.

I think common sense will be a much more flexible, and effective metric to measure disciplinary action than a '3 strikes' policy will ever be.  And since my thoughts on any given matter can generally be universally accepted as correct in all means, that should be the end of it.

All of you.  Back to work.

-CM

That's why I'm in charge and you're not

I see it more as a wakeup call - "Yikes I must have been pretty bad."  I suppose, though, it's the virtual equivalent of a slap to the face.  Sometimes that'll just make them angrier, sometimes it'll bring them to their senses.  I think the "Stay off for the rest of the night" part will tend to push it more towards the latter, but I can see it becoming the former.  I withdraw the suggestion.

I can see your point and I can see how keeping them off for the night could promote better behaviour.  But I guess I tend to focus on those players I've seen that think they are 'right' and the staffer telling them to knock of the behaviour is 'wrong'. To @boot such a player in the middle of a rant on how they weren't doing anything wrong while at the same time insulting the staffer will only feed into their 'poor me' attitude that they are being wronged. 

That's where my thought comes from.  I just don't think it would be a good idea, but I may be wrong.

So far, I have liked Erlkonig's post on staff the best.  I really agree with nearly everything he said in his post.  Staff should not fall under the same three strike policy.  Also, regarding IC actions by staff, I always laid it out similar to the following list before any scene/plot I ever ran, and 99% of the time, people agreed and even the people I butted heads with that were running with me never caused a problem:

1)  Rules lawyers need not apply.
2)  If you disagree with any of my rulings, you better have a damn good explanation for interrupting the entire scene (TN modifiers are not a valid reason).
3)  Shit happens.  Seriously.  If you want to join in the fun, shit will happen.  Bad shit.  Good shit.  Shit you don't even want to happen WILL HAPPEN.
4)  If you are the type of player who would have a RL psychological breakdown if your character were to be injured, or even killed, don't apply.
5)  No idling while the scene is underway without forewarning.  If you continuously idle, and it is your turn to act, you will be ICly left behind in whichever way I decide.
6)  I may add other rules at my discretion during the course of the scene.  These would only be for benefit of the characters, such as to speed things up.
7)  If you don't agree with 1-7, then you may want to find another scene.

As much as I hate all of the "Three Strike" legislation that has been tossed around like a political football by pundits the past 10 years, I think Noor's proposal seems clear enough for players and should hopefully reign in the prima donnas.

I've been asked to make a comment here.

First I feel that any ruling that is applied should be applied solely for what happens on either the forum or the mush. Leave your online journals, photobooks, and other personal webspaces behind. Do not get pissed off and bring it here if someone finds/reads the things that YOU post PUBLICLY on the internet.

Any punishments that are merited and handed out should be listed. What are the infractions that one should not partake in?

These I feel are divided into two groups.

The ones that both players and staffers can violate. (Everyone has a bad day, if one comes here upset from work or school and take it out on someone, they're wrong.)

Then there are the ones that only staff due to having access to information can violate. (If staff hands out my privately registered email, they're wrong.)

The problem I see is with proving an infraction has happened. (As Aries mentioned on another thread in bringing up that the grapevine has been discussing my past characters and current +sheet.) How do you prove who did it? Where did it start? Staff does not have the time to carry out an investigation. What then is one to do?

I would like to see a list of infractions posted so that everyone has a chance to comment on which ones make sense and which ones merit punishments and the level at which they should be punished.

So post them.

Let's try to start at the top and go from there.

I think that the worst a person could do would be to either:

Attempt to hack into the shell.

Attempt to hack into another persons staff account.

Attempt to hack into another persons player account.

If a person was caught doing so I would say that site banning is an appropriate punishment. Though with regards to hacking into the shell if criminal codes were broken I'd toss the book at them.

Comments on these?

Well, those things are all covered under the current SRS Code of Conduct. I'll post that here so people can take a look at it. The formatting is atrocious, and it will need updating, but those are things we can work on.

The following standards govern appropriate behavior on the MUSH. These are designed to foster harmony and minimize disagreements between players. ALL players MUST read and follow ALL the conduct guidelines.
 
Please remember that there is a living, feeling person behind every character on the MUSH, a person deserving of courtesy and respect. Staff are bound to the same conduct standards as all other players. Those who ignore these guidelines or are disruptive, crude or abusive to others on the MUSH will be subject to the policy detailed in 'news policy discipline'. If you have concerns about someone's behavior, we urge you to contact a +staff member so that we can address the problem. People often assume that someone else will mention it, but if everyone assumes that, we won't hear about the problem. We want to ensure that the game is an enjoyable place to be, but we can't achieve that goal if we don't know what's concerning people. The names of others present or a log of the event is helpful, but not necessary.
 
 * All players must have a valid email address.
 
 * You may NOT transfer control of your character to another player.

 * Each character should be controlled by only one player. If your friend wants a character, we will happily make one of his/her own.
 
 * Do not advertise for RL buy/sell/trade on any public forum of the MUSH.
 
 * The expression of racial, religious, sexual or any other intolerance of a particular group is NOT tolerated on ShadowrunMUSH. The MUSH is a game, and all players are welcome here. Your beliefs are your own business, but you cannot harass other players on the MUSH based on them. Prejudices and hatreds between *characters* are a dynamic part of roleplay, but these should be based on factors in the game world, not the real world.
 
 * The MUSH maintains an R rating IC and a PG-13 rating OOCly. Inappropriate nudity, "TinySex", swearing, graphic violence and unacceptable crudity are not allowed in OOC venues. OOC venues include: publicly-used or available code, @doings, chat channel discussion, bboards, etc.

* Players participating in TinySex (explicit sexual RP/conversation) must be 16 years of age or the age of consent in your province or state, whichever is *older*. This rule is in place to protect you and the MUSH from legal repercussions, and for that reason those who break this rule risk being banned from the game.
 
* You will be banned from the MUSH if you engage in any of the following, or similarly destructive behavior. If you're concerned about MUSH "security holes", speak with a wizard, don't poke around looking for them on your own.
 
 * tampering with building/code that doesn't belong to you
 * logging into someone else's character, particularly wizard characters
 * attempts to hack into or tamper with the host machine
 * using "security holes" to ICly or OOCly cheat
 
 * Please respect the privacy of other players. The following are guidelines for privacy issues that many people are sensitive about.
 
 * Do not pick up items that don't belong to you. It's considered theft between players, not IC theft. IC theft must be arranged using a judge.
 
 * Respect people's real life privacy. Some people enjoy talking about their lives outside of the MUSH, but many don't. Those that don't aren't being rude, please don't push the issue. Sensitive questions include: player gender, exact geographic location, marital status, etc.

 * Do not copy/use someone else's text or code without permission. If you wish to use something, contact the owner and ask. If the owner says no, you can't use it. If the owner is unavailable, contact the Build/Code Director.
 
 * Notify all involved before logging RP or discussions that occur in private locations. People have a right to leave if they don't wish to be logged. Anyone RPing in clearly public locations or publicized RP events is considered to have consented to being logged. NEVER distribute logs of private RP or discussions without the permission of all involved. The only exception is logging conduct problems to make a complaint against someone.
 
 * Please respect other people's boundaries regarding roleplaying and don't push them into RP. Feeling uncomfortable with some types of roleplay doesn't mean someone is rude or a bad roleplayer. If you don't feel comfortable with a particular type of RP or RP scene, let others know.
 
 * Female players are sometimes a little sensitive about certain types of RP, because many have had negative experiences on other games, elsewhere on the Internet, or even in real life. Keep in mind that what seems like harmless flirtation to one person might be an intrusive advance to another.

 * Isolated problems with the game's roleplay rules or theme are NOT considered grounds for discipline. We are committed to working with players to provide them the information they need. We realize that everyone makes occasional mistakes, and we do not consider those grounds for harsh discipline.
 
 However, roleplay and theme problems which meet the following criteria will be considered grounds for the disciplinary procedures outlined in 'news policy discipline', particularly if the activity is becoming disruptive to other players and general game play.
 
 * Repeated or chronic violations of roleplay rules or theme.
 * Repeated or chronic problems with the staff
 * Violations of roleplay rules or theme which continue for an extended
? ?period of time after initial discussions with admin.
 * If it appears that the player is not making a reasonable effort to learn
? ?and apply the roleplay rules and theme.
 
 * Please treat people with courtesy and respect. Always separate character behavior from player behavior.
 
 MUSH administrators (see news admin) should also be treated with courtesy and respect. They contribute a lot to the MUSH for the enjoyment of others, and they do it on a completely volunteer basis. Feedback and criticism are always welcome, and we don't expect everyone to agree with all decisions and policies, we just ask people to be courteous.

...?

-CM